Op Room Conversation Re: Brad/Suz
Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:13 pm
<AnE> This is probably a bad time to bring this up.
<AnE> I'm not 100% about who knows what went on yesterday, I'm sure most of you know
<AnE> I'm just... kind of at a loss about how we handle it.
<Sisip> I'm not sure either. I'm not a good person to give opinions/ideas either since.. well..
<Ahriman> Probably depends on which issue we should deal with first.
<AnE> It's more or less the same issue coming from different perspectives at this point.
<JJ> I'm lost too... cause of that specific reason...
<AnE> To start, I'm not gonna beat around the bush with this.
<AnE> A lot of people are unhappy with the way that Brad and Suz specifically are, in their eyes, taking over plots and running the show.
<JJ> But Brad and Suz are the only ones steadily involving themselve and claiming no one else is
<JJ> though you can say they rush in head long and that drives others away
<AnE> Pretty much.
<AnE> BRad especially feels like most other people have been ignoring shit unless it gets shoved in their face, which I can actually sort of see.
<AnE> But
<AnE> I think they also roll into the spotlight too much too fast.
<Sisip> Last night Tremor came in and asked if they wanted his help (because of obvious ic attitude) and he was told no.
<AnE> Uh, yeah.
<AnE> I actually wasn't thrilled about that. I mean, considering I also said no.
<AnE> For one, we had like...7-8 people already to keep track of
<Sisip> I was successfully driven away because I don't like being talked down to.
<AnE> Right.
<AnE> Well.
<AnE> I know Brad thought it was an overreaction because he swears up and down that all Ted was doing was trying to get people to understand how serious things were.
<AnE> ...going on and snapping and being a broken record doesn't really work in one's favor though.
<Sisip> People understand how serious thigns are. They just don't show it like he does. Not everyone shows understandign the same way.
<AnE> Right. I dunno. I guess he thought because people weren't moping in a panic all the time meant they weren't taking ti seriously?
<Sisip> Frig, Ashy is a kid who's carrying around a flashlight because she's terrified of the dark. She knows it's serious. Kayla's tried injecting herself with her powered blood in the hopes it would do something. She knows it's serious.
<Sisip> People know.
<Sisip> We just don't RP the way Brad does.
<Ahriman> He also says he didn't really see anyone trying to do anything about it.
<AnE> I think that a lot of people were discouraged by 2 particular characters snapping at them every time they spoke up about anything and treating them like they were idiots.
<Sisip> ^
<JJ> ^
<Ahriman> ^
<Sisip> But that's the thing.. it's not 2 particular characters. It's characters of 2 particular people.
<Sisip> We need to be hoenst here.
<JJ> idiots, novices, like any help they CAN contribute will make things worse
<AnE> I was trying to keep my word count low. >:c
<Sisip> Conrad and Willow. Gina and any of brad's characters. Ted and Sygny
<JJ> "sit in the van" help
<Sisip> In short.. they're bullies in my eyes.
<Sisip> And I hate saying that ..b ecause I think Brad can be an amazing guy.
<JJ> i know, it just seems so startling that he's lashing out like this, he is a good guy some times
<Sisip> Maybe they just need to be asked to stop being so ... aggressive with things?
<Sisip> Reminded that not everyone RPs the same way
<AnE> Things, people...
<AnE> On the other side of the coin, I won't lie, I did kind of 'wtf' a little when it took an open invitation for a lot of people to start giving a shit about my plot.
<Ahriman> ^^
<AnE> I mean, the reason why I left a lot of it open-ended was because, yeah, I wanted people to investigate and do shit on their own, not wait for me to drop a random encounter on their heads.
<Ahriman> I'm kinda 'wtf'ing that Hayden became more of an afterthought once Kayla came back.
<Sisip> Woah now
<Sisip> We were TOLD
<Sisip> To wait to weeks
<Sisip> By BRAD
<Sisip> He didn't want shit done for two weeks.
<Ahriman> He got that, alright. It's been about two weeks now, right?
<Ahriman> Done as much with Conrad as I did with Kayla. :/
<Sisip> I'm not sure what else can be done, honestly? The way I see it, to keep things without being nasty.. is we have to wait for Brad to tell us when it's ok to start doing stuff.
<Sisip> Because last time I tried soemthing I was complained about OOCly because wtf is Sisip doing
<Sisip> And 'conrad is goign to talk to Sisip about THAT one'
<Ahriman> ?
<Ahriman> About the excursion to NY?
<Sisip> Yup
<Ahriman> Fuck that. That was my idea, to let more people do stuff.
<Sisip> I know... but THAT'S what's going on.
<Sisip> People want to participte, but they don't know what to do. Can they work science side? Or are they stuck with Ted leading them in a libarary gungho session.
<Sisip> People want to particpate in Hayden plot.. but they don't know what to do.
<AnE> I think people get tired of Brad and Suz telling them what to do, which usually includes sitting in the van or reading in the library while Ted and Sygny summon a demon.
<Sisip> We took them on a mission.. and it was critized OOCly and ICly
<Sisip> People are asked to do something.. and it turns into something unnecsary and worthless to the plot... but.. it gave them seomthign to do.
* Ahriman points at Annie; nods
<Sisip> So the logical step would be to as a group or indivdually talk to them and tell them to tone it down.
<AnE> Yea
<AnE> h
<AnE> But also
<AnE> When someone starts a plot, people can't sit around and brush it off and then get mad if someone else, even if it IS them, jumps on it, because then it's like...well what did you expect, you weren't doing anything.
<AnE> They should give other people a chance to join in, I'm just saying
<Sisip> I agree with that, but at what level is someone brushing it off?
<AnE> (someone else chime in because I don't have an accurate measurement)
<Sisip> I think.. if they ignore the inital instances and alerts and show no signs of caring.
<Sisip> But..
<Sisip> at the same time?
<Sisip> I don't like it when people do that ANY time.
<Ahriman> It's hard to tell, when a buncha people just show up for the action scenes, and leave the mundane parts to everyone else.
<AnE> ...that.^
<Sisip> But lets face it, some of the mundane parts aren't accessible to everyone else.
<Sisip> Take this fairy one.
<Ahriman> Yeah, I think there were like 4 characters with the appropriate background to do the mundane parts on this one
<Sisip> Ted wasn't leading the charge to ask people to help him research.
<AnE> People are not required to participate in plots if they don't want to, but at the same time, I'll be damned if I have people cherrypicking and just showing up to fight the baddie of the week and mulling around or not even being here other times. It's one thing if RL prevents it, it's another if you're just being lazy.
<Ahriman> ^
<Sisip> the only time I heard they were researching stuff was when I showed up with Ash.. and was poopooed for not knowing enough
<Sisip> Mundane parts need to be as advertised and as accessable as the wide open exciting parts.
<Ahriman> I tossed Miles in 'cause he's got the academic background, but he's not going to court with everyone. It'd be like what Trem tried with Edward.
<AnE> Fair enough
<Sisip> And.. I hate to say t his... but .. why NOT give some of the newcommers the spotlight? Instead of saying "NO, tremor, go home" ... send someone else home to sit it out.
<AnE> I might be biased
* JJ is now known as ShoRawrgleGrr
<AnE> Because I strongly dislike Tremor's character and I didn't want this to turn into a HMMM I'M A SCIENCE GUY LET ME SCIENCE SCIENCELY and ICly Gains didn't like his reasons for wanting to. *shrug*
* Ahriman half expected Edward to have a FAIRIES book.
<Ahriman> ¬_¬
<Sisip> Yeah, he sucks, I know that, but he wanted to participate.
<AnE> And I think people showing up and HAY WHAT'S GOING ON GUYS is one of my triggers.
<Ahriman> It'd also be nice if he were actually here to advance his plot.
<Sisip> Why?
<Sisip> He's been boycotted.
<Sisip> Brad and Suz are ACTIVELY not bothering.
<Sisip> To the point of being rude to him icly and oocly about it.
<Sisip> When you're told your plot is shit all the time, why would you want to run it?
<AnE> I can't blame people for not really wanting to get involved in a plot that was pretty much 'this character of mine beinf nefarious and using this character of mine as a pawn'. I know we said he could do it, and even IF it's going to expand past that? When THAT is the first thing you show people they aren't going to be into it for the most part.
<Sisip> He went to Brad and asked him to help out. He wants to expand it. He went to Brad because... (eyesroll) Brad's the man who says what flies in this room, whether or not we want to believe it.
<Ahriman> If people don't like it, they can take their ball and go home. I thought there was plenty of participation for the last thing he did with it.
<AnE> Also I've been getting reamed in PM for not 'doing anything about this except calling out everyone in general or writing up a new rule'.
<AnE> (This being Brad and Suz)
<AnE> This is, of course, after several people rant at me for hours on end and expect me to change everyone else's behaviors. SORRY FOR MY MARTYRDOM but that's just how it comes across sometimes
<Sisip> Well, then the first thing we do is go straight to Brad and Suz and tell them "We've had complaint after complaint about (x behavior). We don't want you to change your characters but we would appreciate it if you toned down the hostility and commanding nature that has caused such issues.
<Sisip> We should do this seperately, though, because Suz's warning will ahve to be a bit sterner, as last time we spoke to her it was a 'this shit needs to stop now' deal.
<AnE> I don't even feel like she's the majority of the problem right now. What I feel like, is, she's just sort of..
<AnE> GOING ALONG with Brad.
<Ahriman> Brad, apparently, is already close to just leaving outright after yesterday.
<AnE> I'm not saying she doesn't need a warning, I just think this is kind of... a separate issue from her other issues
<AnE> meh
<AnE> He mentioned he was staying away for a few days, to me
<AnE> Also lol
<AnE> he's not the only one
<Ahriman> I can kinda understand about wanting to make sure Annie's plot doesn't get screw up by someone being a dumbass, 'cause it effects a lot of characters. Otherwise, if it's not their plot, and especially if it doesn't have any real effect on their character, it really shouldn't concern them what another character does.
<Sisip> I don't think that his on the verge of leaving means we shouldn't say anything to him.
<Sisip> I understand tht also, Ahri, but brad cannot KNOW what anyone else will do.
<Sisip> He's assuming everyone else is omg-retard team
<Sisip> Ok, so if Suz is tagtailing on with Brad (who is close to leaving) then maybe we talk to them together and explain things.
<Sisip> Then if people complain.. if they're not part of the storyline? We tell them to stfu
<AnE> Works for me.
<Ahriman> ^
<Sisip> This conversation should be logged on the boards.. cause I'm hafla slleep and should get going soon so I can review it again
* ShoRawrgleGrr is now known as Sho
<Sisip> bed time for me
<AnE> Nighto.
<Sisip> <3
* Sisip (aleafloor@99.166.zik.llh) Quit (Quit: Don't be weepy sleepy puppies, Slip your slippers on your footies, In the morning you'll get goodies, Puppy hats and puppy hoodies.)
* Ahriman has a couple more beers to work through before bed. :3
<AnE> I'm not 100% about who knows what went on yesterday, I'm sure most of you know
<AnE> I'm just... kind of at a loss about how we handle it.
<Sisip> I'm not sure either. I'm not a good person to give opinions/ideas either since.. well..
<Ahriman> Probably depends on which issue we should deal with first.
<AnE> It's more or less the same issue coming from different perspectives at this point.
<JJ> I'm lost too... cause of that specific reason...
<AnE> To start, I'm not gonna beat around the bush with this.
<AnE> A lot of people are unhappy with the way that Brad and Suz specifically are, in their eyes, taking over plots and running the show.
<JJ> But Brad and Suz are the only ones steadily involving themselve and claiming no one else is
<JJ> though you can say they rush in head long and that drives others away
<AnE> Pretty much.
<AnE> BRad especially feels like most other people have been ignoring shit unless it gets shoved in their face, which I can actually sort of see.
<AnE> But
<AnE> I think they also roll into the spotlight too much too fast.
<Sisip> Last night Tremor came in and asked if they wanted his help (because of obvious ic attitude) and he was told no.
<AnE> Uh, yeah.
<AnE> I actually wasn't thrilled about that. I mean, considering I also said no.
<AnE> For one, we had like...7-8 people already to keep track of
<Sisip> I was successfully driven away because I don't like being talked down to.
<AnE> Right.
<AnE> Well.
<AnE> I know Brad thought it was an overreaction because he swears up and down that all Ted was doing was trying to get people to understand how serious things were.
<AnE> ...going on and snapping and being a broken record doesn't really work in one's favor though.
<Sisip> People understand how serious thigns are. They just don't show it like he does. Not everyone shows understandign the same way.
<AnE> Right. I dunno. I guess he thought because people weren't moping in a panic all the time meant they weren't taking ti seriously?
<Sisip> Frig, Ashy is a kid who's carrying around a flashlight because she's terrified of the dark. She knows it's serious. Kayla's tried injecting herself with her powered blood in the hopes it would do something. She knows it's serious.
<Sisip> People know.
<Sisip> We just don't RP the way Brad does.
<Ahriman> He also says he didn't really see anyone trying to do anything about it.
<AnE> I think that a lot of people were discouraged by 2 particular characters snapping at them every time they spoke up about anything and treating them like they were idiots.
<Sisip> ^
<JJ> ^
<Ahriman> ^
<Sisip> But that's the thing.. it's not 2 particular characters. It's characters of 2 particular people.
<Sisip> We need to be hoenst here.
<JJ> idiots, novices, like any help they CAN contribute will make things worse
<AnE> I was trying to keep my word count low. >:c
<Sisip> Conrad and Willow. Gina and any of brad's characters. Ted and Sygny
<JJ> "sit in the van" help
<Sisip> In short.. they're bullies in my eyes.
<Sisip> And I hate saying that ..b ecause I think Brad can be an amazing guy.
<JJ> i know, it just seems so startling that he's lashing out like this, he is a good guy some times
<Sisip> Maybe they just need to be asked to stop being so ... aggressive with things?
<Sisip> Reminded that not everyone RPs the same way
<AnE> Things, people...
<AnE> On the other side of the coin, I won't lie, I did kind of 'wtf' a little when it took an open invitation for a lot of people to start giving a shit about my plot.
<Ahriman> ^^
<AnE> I mean, the reason why I left a lot of it open-ended was because, yeah, I wanted people to investigate and do shit on their own, not wait for me to drop a random encounter on their heads.
<Ahriman> I'm kinda 'wtf'ing that Hayden became more of an afterthought once Kayla came back.
<Sisip> Woah now
<Sisip> We were TOLD
<Sisip> To wait to weeks
<Sisip> By BRAD
<Sisip> He didn't want shit done for two weeks.
<Ahriman> He got that, alright. It's been about two weeks now, right?
<Ahriman> Done as much with Conrad as I did with Kayla. :/
<Sisip> I'm not sure what else can be done, honestly? The way I see it, to keep things without being nasty.. is we have to wait for Brad to tell us when it's ok to start doing stuff.
<Sisip> Because last time I tried soemthing I was complained about OOCly because wtf is Sisip doing
<Sisip> And 'conrad is goign to talk to Sisip about THAT one'
<Ahriman> ?
<Ahriman> About the excursion to NY?
<Sisip> Yup
<Ahriman> Fuck that. That was my idea, to let more people do stuff.
<Sisip> I know... but THAT'S what's going on.
<Sisip> People want to participte, but they don't know what to do. Can they work science side? Or are they stuck with Ted leading them in a libarary gungho session.
<Sisip> People want to particpate in Hayden plot.. but they don't know what to do.
<AnE> I think people get tired of Brad and Suz telling them what to do, which usually includes sitting in the van or reading in the library while Ted and Sygny summon a demon.
<Sisip> We took them on a mission.. and it was critized OOCly and ICly
<Sisip> People are asked to do something.. and it turns into something unnecsary and worthless to the plot... but.. it gave them seomthign to do.
* Ahriman points at Annie; nods
<Sisip> So the logical step would be to as a group or indivdually talk to them and tell them to tone it down.
<AnE> Yea
<AnE> h
<AnE> But also
<AnE> When someone starts a plot, people can't sit around and brush it off and then get mad if someone else, even if it IS them, jumps on it, because then it's like...well what did you expect, you weren't doing anything.
<AnE> They should give other people a chance to join in, I'm just saying
<Sisip> I agree with that, but at what level is someone brushing it off?
<AnE> (someone else chime in because I don't have an accurate measurement)
<Sisip> I think.. if they ignore the inital instances and alerts and show no signs of caring.
<Sisip> But..
<Sisip> at the same time?
<Sisip> I don't like it when people do that ANY time.
<Ahriman> It's hard to tell, when a buncha people just show up for the action scenes, and leave the mundane parts to everyone else.
<AnE> ...that.^
<Sisip> But lets face it, some of the mundane parts aren't accessible to everyone else.
<Sisip> Take this fairy one.
<Ahriman> Yeah, I think there were like 4 characters with the appropriate background to do the mundane parts on this one
<Sisip> Ted wasn't leading the charge to ask people to help him research.
<AnE> People are not required to participate in plots if they don't want to, but at the same time, I'll be damned if I have people cherrypicking and just showing up to fight the baddie of the week and mulling around or not even being here other times. It's one thing if RL prevents it, it's another if you're just being lazy.
<Ahriman> ^
<Sisip> the only time I heard they were researching stuff was when I showed up with Ash.. and was poopooed for not knowing enough
<Sisip> Mundane parts need to be as advertised and as accessable as the wide open exciting parts.
<Ahriman> I tossed Miles in 'cause he's got the academic background, but he's not going to court with everyone. It'd be like what Trem tried with Edward.
<AnE> Fair enough
<Sisip> And.. I hate to say t his... but .. why NOT give some of the newcommers the spotlight? Instead of saying "NO, tremor, go home" ... send someone else home to sit it out.
<AnE> I might be biased
* JJ is now known as ShoRawrgleGrr
<AnE> Because I strongly dislike Tremor's character and I didn't want this to turn into a HMMM I'M A SCIENCE GUY LET ME SCIENCE SCIENCELY and ICly Gains didn't like his reasons for wanting to. *shrug*
* Ahriman half expected Edward to have a FAIRIES book.
<Ahriman> ¬_¬
<Sisip> Yeah, he sucks, I know that, but he wanted to participate.
<AnE> And I think people showing up and HAY WHAT'S GOING ON GUYS is one of my triggers.
<Ahriman> It'd also be nice if he were actually here to advance his plot.
<Sisip> Why?
<Sisip> He's been boycotted.
<Sisip> Brad and Suz are ACTIVELY not bothering.
<Sisip> To the point of being rude to him icly and oocly about it.
<Sisip> When you're told your plot is shit all the time, why would you want to run it?
<AnE> I can't blame people for not really wanting to get involved in a plot that was pretty much 'this character of mine beinf nefarious and using this character of mine as a pawn'. I know we said he could do it, and even IF it's going to expand past that? When THAT is the first thing you show people they aren't going to be into it for the most part.
<Sisip> He went to Brad and asked him to help out. He wants to expand it. He went to Brad because... (eyesroll) Brad's the man who says what flies in this room, whether or not we want to believe it.
<Ahriman> If people don't like it, they can take their ball and go home. I thought there was plenty of participation for the last thing he did with it.
<AnE> Also I've been getting reamed in PM for not 'doing anything about this except calling out everyone in general or writing up a new rule'.
<AnE> (This being Brad and Suz)
<AnE> This is, of course, after several people rant at me for hours on end and expect me to change everyone else's behaviors. SORRY FOR MY MARTYRDOM but that's just how it comes across sometimes
<Sisip> Well, then the first thing we do is go straight to Brad and Suz and tell them "We've had complaint after complaint about (x behavior). We don't want you to change your characters but we would appreciate it if you toned down the hostility and commanding nature that has caused such issues.
<Sisip> We should do this seperately, though, because Suz's warning will ahve to be a bit sterner, as last time we spoke to her it was a 'this shit needs to stop now' deal.
<AnE> I don't even feel like she's the majority of the problem right now. What I feel like, is, she's just sort of..
<AnE> GOING ALONG with Brad.
<Ahriman> Brad, apparently, is already close to just leaving outright after yesterday.
<AnE> I'm not saying she doesn't need a warning, I just think this is kind of... a separate issue from her other issues
<AnE> meh
<AnE> He mentioned he was staying away for a few days, to me
<AnE> Also lol
<AnE> he's not the only one
<Ahriman> I can kinda understand about wanting to make sure Annie's plot doesn't get screw up by someone being a dumbass, 'cause it effects a lot of characters. Otherwise, if it's not their plot, and especially if it doesn't have any real effect on their character, it really shouldn't concern them what another character does.
<Sisip> I don't think that his on the verge of leaving means we shouldn't say anything to him.
<Sisip> I understand tht also, Ahri, but brad cannot KNOW what anyone else will do.
<Sisip> He's assuming everyone else is omg-retard team
<Sisip> Ok, so if Suz is tagtailing on with Brad (who is close to leaving) then maybe we talk to them together and explain things.
<Sisip> Then if people complain.. if they're not part of the storyline? We tell them to stfu
<AnE> Works for me.
<Ahriman> ^
<Sisip> This conversation should be logged on the boards.. cause I'm hafla slleep and should get going soon so I can review it again
* ShoRawrgleGrr is now known as Sho
<Sisip> bed time for me
<AnE> Nighto.
<Sisip> <3
* Sisip (aleafloor@99.166.zik.llh) Quit (Quit: Don't be weepy sleepy puppies, Slip your slippers on your footies, In the morning you'll get goodies, Puppy hats and puppy hoodies.)
* Ahriman has a couple more beers to work through before bed. :3